Ep 28: Too Busy to Be Equal? The Case for Tiny Experiments at Home. An interview with Hayley Swenson.

What if the reason equality at home feels impossible isn’t a lack of commitment but a lack of time?

This week, Kate and Rachel sit down with Haley Swenson, gender researcher and deputy director at New America, to explore the work behind the Better Life Lab Experiments (BLLX) — an initiative focused on practical, evidence-informed ways to rebalance household labor.

Hayley shares how BLLX emerged from a simple but urgent question: if we have decades of data showing unequal division of labor at home, why do we have so little evidence about what actually helps couples change it?

Drawing on behavioral science, design thinking, and real families’ lived experiences, BLLX takes a different approach. Instead of promising perfect equality, it encourages couples to run small, low-stakes experiments — from rethinking chore systems to redefining holiday expectations.

In this conversation, we explore:

Why the most overwhelmed partner is often the one searching for solutions

How “too busy to change” becomes the biggest barrier to change

Why buy-in (not chore charts) is often the real starting point

The hidden emotional stakes of holidays and “magic making”

How giving your partner the benefit of the doubt can shift everything

What it means to design equity for real, messy, overworked families

Hayley also reflects candidly on her own marriage — including her surprise at discovering that even in a same-sex relationship, patterns of unequal labor can still emerge. Find out more about the BLL experiments here:

Better Life Lab Experiments 

All The Things Spreadsheet

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Find out more about your hosts Kate Mangino and Rachel Childs.

This episode is supported by Relationscapes Podcast.