23 October 2026
Whatever Is in the Way Becomes the Way, with Dave Saunders
40% Better - Engineering Leadership
About
“I never once raised my hand and said I want to be a manager. I just led.”
Bill talks with Dave Saunders, who joined an internet company in 1989 and has been building ever since, through dial-up’s boom, Lucent Bell Labs, surgical robotics and now waste-to-diesel.
They dig into understanding the why behind customer requests, Covey’s workers-managers-leaders “wrong jungle” story, plan-do-check-act as a startup turnaround tool, and why you need to decide what you’re not building.
Plus: a phone call from Steve Jobs, and the bus tour that foreshadowed Lucent’s collapse.
Connect with Dave: https://davesaunders.net
Connect with Bill: https://40pb.com
Bill talks with Dave Saunders, who joined an internet company in 1989 and has been building ever since, through dial-up’s boom, Lucent Bell Labs, surgical robotics and now waste-to-diesel.
They dig into understanding the why behind customer requests, Covey’s workers-managers-leaders “wrong jungle” story, plan-do-check-act as a startup turnaround tool, and why you need to decide what you’re not building.
Plus: a phone call from Steve Jobs, and the bus tour that foreshadowed Lucent’s collapse.
Connect with Dave: https://davesaunders.net
Connect with Bill: https://40pb.com